Comments by "John Zuma" (@johnzuma4688) on "Chris At Speakers Corner"
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مسائل اسلامية Your logic is of course totally off course. You cannot understand the quran without the hadiths. If the hadiths were of no importance, why have Muslims developed what they call “a science” to analyse these hadiths? And there is only the Bible which qualifies as source of Gods teaching. There are no hadiths required to understand what God teaches in the Bible.
>> Narrated 'Aisha: that the Prophet married her when she was six years old and he consummated his marriage when she was nine years old, and then she remained with him for nine years (i.e., till his death). << Sahih Bukhari 7:62:64.
So here we have the most authentic islamic source telling us that Mohammed married a 6 year old child and then had sex with that child when it was just 9 years old. Now sex with a child is rape which is evil, immoral and disgusting. So according to the most authentic islamic sources Mohammed was an evil child rapist and disgusting pervert.
Now your turn, show Christian sources that have a similar authenticity like the islamic hadiths have for islam. And do name the Bible verses you refer to, I will gladly explain to you how you have been lied to about what they they really say. Of course the content of the Bible or the content of some other Christian sources does not change the fact that Mohammed was an evil child rapist and disgusting pervert. Yet today billions of people follow Mohammed.
Christians follow Jesus, who never had a slave, never killed anyone, never raped anyone, never tortured anyone, never committed adultery, all which Mohammed did. So who is the better example to follow my friend?
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مسائل اسلامية Lets see how you will try and justify Mohammed being an evil child rapist and disgusting pervert.
You say >> christians don't have a book to start with even the Bible is not the direct word of God, <<
First of all this does not change the fact that according to the islamic sources Mohammed was an evil child rapist and disgusting pervert. And that my friend makes you look very desperate to try and change the subject. Of course you seem very ignorant as to what Mohammed taught in the quran. In Surah 3:3 Mohammed tells us that God revealed the Torah and the Gospel, which of course make them the Word of God as that is how God reveals. And in Surah 6:115 Mohammed tells us that none can change the Word of God. Logically according to the quran, the Torah and the Gospel we have today must be the original Word of God. And the Torah and the Gospel are the two main parts of the Bible. So besides Mohammed being an evil child rapist and disgusting pervert are you telling us that Mohammed made a mistake in the many different Arabic qurans we can buy?
And you have been lied to my friend, Matthew and John and Peter and James and Jude all knew Jesus and were eye-witnesses to what they wrote down. And we know that the Gospel was written down during the time when there were eye-witnesses alive. And do look up what was discussed at the council of Nicaea, it is well documented.
On the other hand can you show me a quran written by Mohammed? Of course not, as he could not even read or write. So can you show me a quran written by someone who was with Mohammed always during the 23 years Mohammed claimed to be a messenger of his allah? Of course not. So there is not even one complete quran today from the time of Mohammed. How do we know this? We have a sahih hadith that tells us that Uthman burnt all the original writings based on what Mohammed maybe recited. And Uthman replaced the many different recitations of what people claimed to have come from Mohammed and replaced it with his own new quran written in only one dialect.
Problem is that Uthmans quran and its copies have also all been lost and as we can buy more than 30 different Arabic qurans today we know 100% that they all must be corrupted. And of course nobody knows who wrote any one of these many different qurans. Or can you tell me who were the authors of all these many different Arabic qurans? And what were their interest and objections when they rewrote Uthmans quran? And is that the reason why in each of these qurans there are so many mistakes and contradictions my friend? Following your logic, that proves that all these different Arabic qurans written by unknown authors and being full of mistakes and contradictions cannot be from God.
So tell me why do you follow one of these qurans that according to you cannot come from God?
The scholars of the Bible have more than 25.000 manuscripts to study including some 5000 complete handwritten Bibles as well as some 10.000 translations. And all of them teach the same message of God. And of course not one Biblical scholar has discarded even one of these manuscripts as false. The hadiths writer who only recorded the hadiths some 200 years after Mohammed lived discarded more than 98% of the hadiths in circulation in their time as false. So why did they not discard the sahih hadiths (plural) that confirmed that Mohammed married a 6 year old child and then raped that child when it was just 9 years old? They did not discard these hadiths because they were convinced that they were true. So tell me, why do you believe that following an evil child rapist will get anyone to heaven?
So I challenge you again, show where in the Bible it gives the age of Mary and Joseph. And do show the scholars who you claim say that Mary was around 12 years old. I take you are asking me to research for myself because you know just like I know that nowhere is Mary’s age reliably given. And of course the video link you posted, only makes an assumption and nothing else. But lets assume Mary was 12 years old, that makes 33% older than when Mohammed raped prepubescent 9 year old little Aisha. So you really believe that by referring to Mary that justifies Mohammed raping a little prepubescent 9 year old child?
Lets see what the Bible says about Rebecca. Genesis 24:15-19 Expanded Bible » 15 Before the servant had finished ·praying [L speaking], Rebekah, the daughter of Bethuel, came out of the city. (Bethuel was the son of Milcah and Nahor, Abraham’s brother [11:27–30].) Rebekah was carrying her water jar on her shoulder. 16 She was ·very pretty [extremely beautiful], a virgin; she had never ·had sexual relations with [L known] a man. She went down to the spring and filled her jar, then came back up. 17 The servant ran to her and said, “Please give me a little ·water [sip] from your jar.”
18 Rebekah said, “Drink, ·sir [my master].” She quickly lowered the jar ·from her shoulder [L on her hand] and gave him a drink. 19 After ·he finished drinking [L she let him drink all he wanted], Rebekah said, “I will also pour some water for your camels [L until they have finished drinking].” <<
By the way the Book of Jasher is not part of the Bible. So does Genesis 24:15-19 sound as if Rebecca was just 3 or even just 10 years old??
You say >> or is that ok for Issac and god, but not for Muhammed peace be upon all the prophets. « And of course nobody today follows Isaac, and I assume you do not actually suggest that Mohammed is the same as our ONE TRUE GOD of the Bible? So why are you comparing Mohammed with Isaac and of course why do you suggest that Mohammed is the same as God?
You say >> I'm providing you from what you believe to be "God's word" while you are not providing me from what I believe to be "God's words", << So let me help you. In Surah 65:4 we read about divorce. The first part speaks about older women who have stopped menstruating. The next part >> and [also for] those who have not menstruated. … << So who are those wives who have not menstruated?? That refers to prepubescent children.
Logically a Muslim man cannot divorce a wife if he has not married her. So marrying prepubescent children is approved in Islam by Mohammed and his allah. And marrying children means having sex with children which is raping children and that is evil. So here we have Mohammed and his allah approving of Muslim men raping little girls which proves that Mohammed was never a prophet of our Almighty God of the Bible.
You refer to Numbers 31:17-18, so what is your point? Or are you saying that God does not have the right to destroy his creation?
You say as a Muslim you believe that Jesus never killed, raped, committed adultery or tortured anyone. Yet according to the islamic sources we know that Mohammed did all these things. So again tell me, why do you believe that following Mohammed will get you to heaven?
As Christians know that Jesus is the Word of God which makes Him God, we accept that God has the right to judge all human beings. And as you correctly show in 1 Samuel 15:3, our God is not this placid merciful God that Mohammed claimed his allah is. Just think what will happen to all those people who have rejected Gods plan for our salvation when we see what He did to the Amalekites for just fighting the Jews. What do you think will happen to you on judgement day?
You mention that Mary became distressed when she met an angel. You obviously have no clue how powerful God is and I certainly would get distressed if an angel came to me.
You say >> I don't believe such things that degrade God, Jesus, and Marry to the point that I just stated, « I fact you insult God, by criticising His actions, you insult Mary and you insult Jesus and of course you make Mohammed equal to God. I wonder how God will view that on judgement day.
I certainly do not believe that anyone in their complete mind would insult God and imply that Mohammed was equal to God. And of course our God has given us a free will. God gave us the choice to accept His plan for our salvation or we can reject God. Your choice my friend.
And by the way, not one of the points you raised changes the fact that Mohammed was an evil child rapist and disgusting pervert which proves that Mohammed was never a prophet of God.
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مسائل اسلامية My dear friend, it was you who jumped the topics and I only answered you. So if you want to stick to one topic, then lets go back to the original which was that Mohammed raped a 9 year old child. And when we read Surah 65:4 we see that here it implies that Mohammed and his allah approved of marrying prepubescent little girls (those who have not menstruated) which in turn implies that Mohammed and his allah approved of raping little girls. You did not answer why would thought such a disgusting and evil person like Mohammed could even be a prophet of God.
You say >> I notice you didn’t reply to how disgusting and evil rape is when Isaac did it, << As you have failed to show that Isaac raped anybody, what is there to answer?
You say >> or when your god decided to enter a girls uterus without her consent, << Mary did consent (Luke 1:38). You say “your god” referring to my God, does that mean that you agree that Mohammed’s allah is a different god to our Almighty God of the Bible? That would mean you believe in at least two gods, namely Mohammed’s allah as well as our ONE TRUE GOD of the Bible who is the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. That makes you a polytheist. On the other hand if you believe that Mohammed’s allah is the same as our ONE TRUE GOD of the Bible, then you are blaspheming and I wonder how you will answer that on judgement day.
You say >> At the very least prophet Muhammed got consent from Aisha and her parents, << A 6 year old child cannot give consent to something that she does not understand. So Aisha did not give her consent. As we know that all the hair on Aishas head fell out, so it seems that she was very distressed at the thought of Mohammed marrying her. And of course Abu Bakr did not want Mohammed to marry Aisha, but Mohammed insisted.
You say >> you also didn’t reply to the evilness, violence, and cold blooded of your hod and Bible killing innocent children, pregnant women, and even animals. << Are you saying our ONE TRUE GOD of the Bible does not have the right to do with His creation as he pleases? And our ONE TRUE GOD of the Bible does not have the right to punish evil people? Is that what you believe? Remember, this is how our ONE TRUE GOD of the Bible dealt with the people God judged to be sinners. So you know what awaits you on judgement day. So tell me, do you really believe that you as a simple human being can prescribe to God what he can or cannot do?
So Bart Ehrman, who is an atheist, is the best you can come up with? You do know that Bart Ehrman clearly says that Jesus died on cross, so Bart Ehrman who you say we should listen to, clearly states that islam is false. So will you believe him that Jesus died on the cross, after all you said that he is the expert. On the other hand, if you do not believe him, why should I?
You say >> Don’t believe all the lies you been told, << So far you have not shown even one lie that I might have been told. So why lets hear at least one lie and why you consider it to be a lie.
And again, you are the one who is jumping from one topic to another and I am only following you. So answer, why do you believe that an evil child rapist and disgusting pervert was a prophet of our ONE TRUE GOD of the Bible?
So tell me, why do you believe that following Mohammed will get you to heaven? And remember Mohammed is the only messenger of islam.
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I have read the hafs quran and some of the hadiths and found the following very disturbing about Mohammed and his allah:
- Islam teaches that child marriage is OK which implies child rape (Surah 65:4) which is evil. And Mohammed of course led by example when he raped a 9 year old little girl.
- Islam teaches that it is OK for a husband to beat his wife (Surah 4:34) which is evil.
- Islam teaches that it is OK to use women captured in war to be used and sold as sex slaves (Surah 33:50) which evil.
- Islam teaches that Christians and Jews must be fought until they have been killed (murdered) unless they submit to Islam and agree to be oppressed second class citizens in the own country (Surah 9:29) which is evil.
- Verily those who believe not [in Islam], among those who have received the scriptures [Jews and Christians], and among the idolaters, [shall be cast] into the fire of hell, to remain therein [for ever]. These are the worst of creatures. << Quran 98:6, So according to Mohammed Christians and Jews who reject Islam are the worst of creature.
- And the witness of a women is worth only half of that of a man. (Surah 2:282). That is an insult to all women.
- Surah 3:151: "We shall cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve (all non-Muslims) …"
- Surah 2:191: "And kill them (non-Muslims) wherever you find them … kill them. Such is the recompense of the disbelievers (non-Muslims)."
- Surah 9:5: "Then kill the disbelievers (non-Muslims) wherever you find them, capture them and besiege them, and lie in wait for them in each and every ambush …
So that is my problem with the many different Arabic quran we can all buy. And we should always remember all of Islam is only what Mohammed maybe recited and how he lived.
Lets see what Jesus said:
- Jesus teaches in John 14:6 English Standard Version » 6 Jesus said to him, “I am the way, and the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me. «
So who needs Mohammed and his allah? Logically no-one, especially as Mohammed does not explain how anyone gets to heaven following what he recited or how he lived.
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