Comments by "" (@rstevewarmorycom) on "OxfordUnion"
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No, it's a fact. I'm NOT saying that "nobody knows" and therefore my supposition is correct. THAT WOULD be an "argument from ignorance". I'm saying simply that no government so far has actually been Socialism, as I define it, which I can readily describe to you without any hairy-fairy pipe-dreams. And my form requires NO modification of the human character. You must simply make it so terrifying to cheat that nobody dares even think of doing it. Then cooperation grows as an ethic among a people who sees that it works. I know EXACTLY what strict laws are required by a Socialist government of the People in order to meet the definition of a Socialism. It has never before been tried by my definition, and I can be highly specific about what it requires. It has not even ever before been tried by the political science definition either, which is available in textbooks. Centrally controlled production of food was a disaster in the former USSR because it was corrupt from top to bottom and didn't enforce severe consequences on dissidents and subversives. The USSR was NOT Socialist, the Politburo families were a rich elite who stole lots of the production and sold it abroad to feed their craving for luxuries. Tanzania was a corrupt dictatorship with no interest in the people at all. When in WW II England absolutely forced farmers to grow more crops and their own vegetables for local consumption with harsh threats of confiscation of farms, the people did it just fine, producing in one year nearly twice the food they had produced the previous year. Control works, if it is absolute and corruption is weeded out by multiple layered investigation, confiscation, and torture and death penalties for defrauding the People. None of the events you cited was Socialism. Socialism is NOT theft, it cannot BE theft, it is stealing back what was stolen by the rich. You are a capitalist liar, you would be put to work in a work camp for spewing that nonsense. The robber doesn't GET to complain about having to return what he has stolen!!
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No, that's an out and out lie. You're the kind of shitty little devious capitalist liar who will say absolutely anything to disparage Socialism. Socialism has NEVER been tried, NO supposed socialism ever guaranteed homes for all, NO supposed socialism ever guaranteed equal wage per hour for all, NO supposed socialism ever guaranteed free health care for all, etc. If they did not do those things then they WERE NOT actual Socialism!!! Your merry little tale is nothing but paranoid blabber with NO principle, NO evidence, NO content at ALL!! Socialism has NEVER BEEN TRIED!! Corrupt dictators do NOT institute socialism!! Africans are uneducated, they don't have the savvy to grasp what they are getting. It takes an educated populace to force true Socialism, unless it is handed to them and imposed. The Brits did what they needed to do to feed everyone. They are a basically decent society that feels obligation to do what is needed to meet the real needs of the People. They not only carried that through in war, but for several years afterword to feed the rest of Europe!! You have been brainwashed with capitalist lies, you have no ability to discern their falsehoods. You were raised with a terror of collectivism bred into you by propaganda paid for by the rich!! They spent a fortune brainwashing people like you!!
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I have defined the prerequisites for TRUE Socialism. NO marketeer is "liberal". People know what is unfair. THEY decide what is evil. They all know it, they are just waiting for the chance to enact the measures to stop it! You "demonstrated" NOTHING. All you did was PRETEND that dictatorships and greedy elitist oligarchies were "socialism", when they NEVER met MY prerequisites. We haven't got a TRUE Socialism yet on this planet, but this planet is small, and time is long. All you've got is veiled attempts at insult, "hysterical screeching" "credibility" "shrieking and complaining", etc. You got nuthin'.
Painful for me? I'm a retired physicist, I won't live to see the planet go Socialist, but it will, baby, oh it will!!
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You assign enough people to it and enough advanced equipment so that it isn't that hard. Or else you divide unpleasant jobs among everyone equally, each block gets to drive the garbage truck to the next block, picking up that block's garbage along the way. It is assigned by day. People with no education need work to live. Eating is an incentive. The jobs that are on the board that the People want done are the only way to get a meal ticket or buy groceries, otherwise they starve. This has always been so. Encouragement, incentive, when it finally comes down to it, is starvation. Housing is free, it's yours forever, as is health care, transport, a certain amount of power, telecom, but if you refuse to work no one is allowed to give you food, on pain of torture.
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Now you're repeating yourself, trying to get an answer you can use against me. Futile. Another way of hiding behind your question, the oldest dishonesty around. Read my answer for comprehension this time, instead of phrase-mining for your net come-back.
Repeating:
You assign enough people to it and enough advanced equipment so that it isn't that hard. Or else you divide unpleasant jobs among everyone equally, each block gets to drive the garbage truck to the next block, picking up that block's garbage along the way. It is assigned by day. People with no education need work to live. Eating is an incentive. The jobs that are on the board that the People want done are the only way to get a meal ticket or buy groceries, otherwise they starve. This has always been so. Encouragement, incentive, when it finally comes down to it, is starvation. Housing is free, it's yours forever, as is health care, transport, a certain amount of power, telecom, but if you refuse to work no one is allowed to give you food, on pain of torture.
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No, it doesn't need to be centralized. Jobs are performed close to home, so the local community decides what they want to pay to have done. The features of the requirement to work are universal truths, they don't depend on the economic system. If people don't work, they don't get food, been true since the paleolithic. Why did you imagine otherwise? Did you imagine I was some fool who thought everything could be FREE, FREE, FREE, like some SJW bozo? The difference between capitalism and socialism is that there are no rich and there are no poor, and the formerly rich starve if they don't work just like anyone else. I have no problem with starving people, and if someone interferes with that righteous process they DESERVE to be tortured. It's subversive of the Socialism. That's how we got the rich, letting people not work!! No, the torture in capitalism is merely subtle and not specified. The "freedom" to sleep under a bridge in the rain, etc. People never know whether they will starve to death or whether they can rob someone else and get away with not working. This encourages crime and unfairness. This is the heart of desperation. Better to know exactly what you must do to be secure and safe. You don't need monolithic states, you can have lots of communities that do all these same things. It's like a big tribe, you do your work or nobody feeds you. Pure? Not MY claim. There isn't any such thing. TRUE Socialism merely meets the requirements of the People, not any elite. Once again, you've blabbered a pile of brainwashed nonsense and imagined that you're intelligent. You're not.
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All a matter of degree. Europe is sociallized, more than socialist, but they are on the road. Yes,here, the upper 30% of the population seems to be hail and happy. They get to buy pretty much everything they want, but at the expense of the rest of the people. By the People, I mean the deprived, the victims of this theft, usually a majority in severely capitalist countries. You can stop blabbering about "the People" now, you only sound stupid. Many socialized medical systems in Europe either pay malpractice insurance from a fund, or strictly limit awards and judgments and use professional courts instead of economically angry juries. No, you have no "long lines" there. In the NHS you can get an appointment today or tomorrow, try that with US specialists, a month to two months out!! We need MORE physicans, time to take the quota off medical schools and force them to take all comers.And yes, the next thing that need to be stopped is private inequitable medical care. Take what is paid by the rich for that, with confiscatory taxes, and use it for the national health. I've seen the stats on migratory physicians, just as many US doctors go to Europe and socialized medical systems as come here imagining to make out like a bandit. The statistics deny that they come for the pay, usually electing to work in public health. New tits? Should be illegal except for restorative purposes. No government should subsidize unnecessary surgeries. If we have a problem with doctors leaving, we can alter our system of educational credentials to make it impossible for them to be apprised by another system. Or, as I said, make it impossible to take any wealth with them. We can also train more doctors, but at a less specialized course of study, or divide up the specialties differently, or train more specialized physician's assistants and surgeons specialized in only specific surgeries, like the NHS does. This has reduced "doctor flight" in recent years. We can also close the borders to doctors, under national security edicts, or force them to completely train a cadre of replacements before they are allowed to leave. We don't actually want greedy subversives, corrupts the national honor and character. We'll let them go and import immigrants who share our ideals.
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ALL systems, ALL governments, ALL that ever have been or ever will be, require their imposition by FORCE!! Humans are imperfect, but their lives can be MADE nearly fair and almost perfect by the imposition of LAW and ORDER!!
We can permit breast alterations, but only at home by amateur untrained personnel, that should make them unpopular quite quickly!!!
Zimbabwe isn't socialist, don't you know that? They failed to institute it or confiscate land or wealth. Do YOU want to live in a country where they reuse needles? No wonder they come to the UK.
http://www.solidarity-us.org/node/4616
I have seen lots of doctors come here for the standard of living, and the level of medical technology, not so much for the pay. I know several doctors from the US who tried private practice and quit in disgust and moved to Europe where they work for government health services. The NHS is amazing, literally every person with a traumatic injury gets a CT scan. in the US that is maybe half. Standard of care far exceeds US standards. They intubate at the scene, we don't, they anaesthetize at the scene, we don't, they reduce pneumothorax at the scene, we seldom do. They have doctors on most of their ambulances in the cities. We do not!
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No, Socialism murdered no one. There has NEVER BEEN a fully Socialist government, and Europe has come closer than all others. The nations you cite were NOT socialist, they were oligarchic feudal capitalism. They did NOT do what a Socialism would do, they did what a greedy elite does in any kind of repressive society. They did NOT meet the People's needs, they weren't Democratic, the People were not guarantees the things they have a human right to, they were not paid equally for their hour of work, and they were subjugated by a rich elite in all of those cases. Their oligarchic masters merely CLAIMED they were socialist in order to deceive their people. And the USA gladly played along, our rich elite wanted to label them socialist when they actually weren't in order to scare OUR people away from socialism!! ALL societies require compulsion, the issue is to what end, fairness, or unfairness.
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Those are all different. A few former Soviet bloc nations are STILL Socialist and their people quite happy with it, like the best places in Europe. Nobody seems to know that, Americans especially. Vietnam is very happy with its government, their constitution was designed after the British government by Ho Chi Minh, who the US called "communist", but he was no more extreme than the British liberal PMs. He just wanted the greedy Europeans out of his country. The Vietnamese are the ones who ended the Pol Pot regime!! Cuba never had much of a chance against the US efforts to destroy them,, but they instituted urban farming and fed their people VERY will in spite of the US blockade. Also, they supplied doctors and hospitals to most of south America. They still do! Venezuela was NEVER socialist, Chavez and his cronies shipped all the nation's oil wealth offshore into unregulated Caribbean banks. I haven't researched the others. But in each case cited by the insane right-wing, there was NO socialism in place. Only dictatorship and underpayment of workers, and the dictator and his henchmen running off with the loot. If the right-wing couldn't find a "failed socialism" to point to, they would have to create one so they didn't look stupid.
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"tedius"? Why is it that people who can't think also can't spell worth a shit? Oh, yeah, that's why!
Political Analysis does NOT involve Marxian dialectic, that's old hat. ALL you have to do is get them to ask the questions: Why aren't I owed a share of the earth to live on, I was born here like everybody else??!! Why do I have to pay rent or mortgage, monthly tribute, to some asshole who was born just as squalling and stupid as I was in the same delivery room?? Why can't I be paid the same as anyone else, my family has the same needs!!?? Why can't I get govt paid healthcare, I can't work when I'm sick!!?? Why can't I get free education, I can't possibly do a decent job before I'm educated?? Why can't I get a decent retirement, I did my bit!?? Etc. Once people realize that they have the choice to gang up on and kill the rich in their sleep they want a machine gun!!! Venezuela is a feudal oligarchic capitalist dictatorship, quit trying to jam it in illegitimately as some kind of proxy "socialism" for your stupid right-wing nutbar strawman arguments!!!!
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