Comments by "doveton sturdee" (@dovetonsturdee7033) on "Knowledgia"
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Which Scottish troops were left behind? If you mean 51 Highland Division, they surrendered a week after Dunkirk had ended, on the French Atlantic coast at St. Valery. The had been part of IX Corps of the French 10 Army, and were not near Dunkirk. They were certainly not part of any rearguard.
Moreover, half of the division (ArkForce) were successfully evacuated, and the rest might well have been if the commander of IX Corps had not surrendered as a large RN evacuation fleet was preparing to lift the troops out of St. Valery. Try reading 51 Highland Division's website instead of relying on myth.
135,000 Scots soldiers died in WW1, out of 886,000 British casualties on land.
57,000 Scots soldiers died in WW2, out of 384,000 British casualties on land.
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Indeed, Britain and France did declare war. Germany, however, simply invaded Czechoslovakia, Poland, Denmark, Norway, Luxembourg, The Netherlands, Belgium and, later, the Soviet Union, without the courtesy of a formal declaration of war. Usually, the first the people of the invaded nations knew about it was the arrival of German bombers, tanks, troops, and, later, einsatzgruppen.
When did Hitler twice propose a 'peace treaty?' Where might the details be read? Unless, of course, you mean the 'Appeal to Reason' which basically said 'surrender or we bomb you?''
However the world might be now, and it is not the result of WW2 & the Cold War, by the way, would you really suggest that a world which saw the mass extermination of Jews, Slavs, Gypsies, Jehovah's Witnesses, the physically and mentally disabled, and homosexuals, together with the mass deportation of slave labourers from occupied countries, might have been a better one?
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@pierrefraisse8610 Good to see that the old myth is still alive and well. You should visit the British National Archives at Kew, and ask to see WO/106/1613, the file of documents and signals from the time.
The British did, initially, assume that French troops would be evacuated aboard French ships, but this was, admittedly, a wrong assumption, as, by 29 May, French ships had only lifted 1,006 men. Indeed, by the time Dynamo ended, this total had only reached around 22,000.
When the British became aware of the situation, their vice CIGS, John Dill, sent orders to Vice Admiral, Dover, Bertram Ramsay, with a copy to the senior British officer in Dunkirk, William Tennant, stating that 'The policy of HM Government is that both British & French troops be given equal opportunities for being evacuated in British ships and boats.' The signal may be read in the archives, and that, despite subsequent claims, is actually what happened.
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@MrJackassz Where did I say 'All Europeans?' In any case, are you suggesting that spreading learning, science, medicine, technology, and law to Africa, the New World, and Australasia was bad? Would the natives really have been better if they had remained at a mesolithic or neolithic level, and, by and large, died in their late thirties.
Oh dear.The romantic and false image of the noble savage!
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@bobsakamanos4469 As I wrote earlier, please feel free to attempt to show where any of the facts I have posted are incorrect. Instead of simply posting tedious insults.
'The battle of Britain airwar has already been explained - i.e. a delaying action and seige.
The fake invasion purpose was twofold: - staged for Stalin's benefit, having no real chance of success with towed river barges to bring many divisions of artillery, armour, vehicles, etc across. They also hoped that Britain would sue for peace of course given the previous government's lack of stomach.'
It seems that you haven't heard of Guilio Douhet & his theories about air power? In a nutshell, that bombing alone would force the target nation to come to terms. Goering was a fan of the idea, as was the British Air Ministry and the American Le May. Only after it was tried was it found to be erroneous.
Feel free to explain how air combat over the Home Counties was a siege in any shape or form. The intention was to secure control over the Channel & the South East of England before an invasion might be attempted. I did not, by the way, suggest that an invasion attempt would succeed, given the overwhelming naval supremacy the Royal Navy held in Home Waters, but that does not support the argument that it was simply a ruse.
Oh, and whatever 'lack of stomach' previous governments might have shown (I assume by that you refer to their unwillingness to go to war, which was a popular cause in France & Britain) do you really suggest that old adolf really still thought that after Mers el Kebir, which was a clear demonstration of the intent of the Churchill administration, and even led to adolf's 'Last Appeal to Reason' also known as 'surrender or we bomb you.'
'Adolf also expected his US friends to stay neutral.' Really? Then, again, feel free to explain how declaring war on the US after Pearl Harbor, and initiating the second 'Happy Time' was intended to reinforce that expectation.
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Actually, IX Corps of the French 10th Army, to which 51st Highland Division was attached, was forming a defensive line along the Somme, and was attacked by the Germans after Dynamo had ended, beginning on 5 June.
IX Corps withdrew across France towards Le Havre, and one of 51st's three brigades, 154, was detached to form part of 'Arkforce' intended to keep communications with Le Havre open. Unfortunately, German forces reached the Atlantic coast near St. Valery-en-Caux first, severing these communications. Arkforce was withdrawn through Le Havre, but a large evacuation of the other two brigades, planned by Admiral James for the night of 11-12 June, was prevented by fog, and a second attempt on 12-13 June was abandoned when the commander of IX Corps, General Ihler, surrendered on the morning of 12th, obliging Major-General Fortune to do the same.
Some British and French troops (2,137 British & 1,184 French) were lifted from a nearby small port, Veules, but around 6,000 men of 51st HD were captured.
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