Comments by "đ Erin Thor" (@Erin-Thor) on "TFLoffroad"
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 @rauland â You do know there are 3 diffâs right? Front, center and rear. If you have all 4 wheels in mud and just a rear locking diff... wait for it... ALL POWER WOULD GO TO ONE OF YOUR FRONT WHEELS. Why? Because with an open diff, all power goes to the wheel with the LEAST resistance. So the wheel that looses traction first, as in spins, gets all the power. I have winched a few dozen dolts in Chevy pickups out of the mud because they, like you, had trucks with 4x4 printed on the sides. Doubt me, go play in the mud. Donât get me wrong, locking rear diffâs HELP, on roads in bad weather, especially if you are towing.
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 @rauland â Well, youâre right, I did say no locking diffâs. My bad. Thereâs only 2 vehicles sold in the USA w lockers all around (to the best of my knowledge), Jeep Rubicon and Mercedes G-wagons. All others have some sort of lesser/cheaper setups. Even the highly regarded Toyota Off Road Pro versions use a (cheaper/not better) computer controlled braking system to fake 4x4. They work great in most mild situations, but if you get them stuck in muck or sand, they will give up the fight. Meaning the computer tries a few too many times, gets confused and just pukes. Youâll hear people commenting here on YouTube to tow truck operators âDonât know whatâs wrong, everything seemed O.K., but now itâs like no power is going to the wheels.â Thatâs the system saying it âgot so confused, Iâm sick!â Restarting the car sometimes works, turning off traction control seems to resolve the issue too. You can buy locking diffâs for a lot of vehicles aftermarket, but only two come stock.
This might help, Most RWD cars use open differentials, meaning power goes to the wheel with the least resistance. Get one wheel on ice, and youâre stuck. FWD cars ditto, but some just feed one front wheel all the time, the other wheel is essentially a trailer wheel that steers. The next step up are limited slip diffâs which diverts power to the wheel w the most resistance. The best use locking diffâs, and trust me, old school is better. Front and rear differentials direct power to the front or rear wheels, center diffâs split the power between the front and rear diffâs. In AWDâs itâs usually a 60/40 (60% rear/40% front) split. Better ones have a locking center diff which sends power to the front and rear diffâs equally. AWD means power can be or is always going to all 4 wheels, but they are almost always allow plenty of slippage as they are driven on pavement. Most AWD systems also have open diffâs so getting them stuck is easy too. Subaru uses viscous couplings to do the work of diffâs, which I think operate as a kind of clutch system that automate icky uses the pressure of the spinning wheel to divert power. I used to be skeptical of Subaruâs system, but thereâs a ton of YouTube vids that show them in action... and it is impressive to watch. The newer method of faux 4x4 is CCB, computer controlled braking already mentioned. Good for most street conditions, but not âtrueâ 4x4.
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 @dklein8207 â It just that Iâve helped pull several dozen Fords, GMCâs/Chevyâs and Rams out of the mud, ice or snow. They are intended to help with traction on city streets, in mild conditions, and can be a great assist when towing. The Chevy website just says auto-trac or something like that. Not doubting you, just saying that without a center differential locker your power is going to go to the front or rear wheels with the least traction. So if they have a front locker (very extremely rare) and a rear locker, if the front or back wheels break free, youâre stuck in the mud because the center diff is going to send all of the power to the wheels without traction. And bud, Iâve been going off-roading for 45 years now, owned a few rigs, gone on several trips every year, and helped the people in their street vehicles get on their way more times than I can count. People see 4x4 on the side and think my pickup can do anything... not understanding their own trucks systems. As of 2019. The ONLY two vehicle lines sold with true 4x4 systems, with locking front, center and rear diffs were 1. Jeep Rubicon models, and 2. Mercedes G-500 series wagons. Overseas there are a few others like MAN trucks and whatever, but they arenât sold in the USA. Doubt me, google it. Everything else sold stock in the USA does not have front center and rear lockers. And donât misunderstand me, Chevy ZR whateverâs may have locking rear diffs. Great when towing. Not good in mud, sand or ice and snow. Better than nothing, but not a âseriousâ off-road machine. Sorry.
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With respect to you both, no. Just NO. My Range Rover needed 1 transmission repair and 2 replacements in the first 2 years an was going to need a 3rd when I sold it at almost 3 years and 47k miles. A transmission that lasts 15,000 miles is crap, and thatâs not counting the alternator, the two water pump issues, and about 22 miscellaneous electrical issues like windows that would work one day and be dead the next, then work again for a few days. Had to have it towed three times in 3 years, yet people still think itâs a capable machine. I get it, I do... excellent on and off road, handled great in all conditions, just need to follow it with a support vehicle. Yâall passed crazy and have entered the full-tilt Bozo realm.
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 @peopleschamp7258 â I purchased new, and yes the warranty covered all of the repairs. But you guys sound like itâs a rare thing, in my trips to their service department while waiting with other owners and I talked to quite a few. They all loved their cars, why are you here Iâd ask, oh alternator, some electrical issue, or transmission issues, but thatâs normal, itâs a great car. No. It is not normal! I use my vehicle for work, when itâs down warranty is irrelevant as I burn half a day dropping it off or getting it towed, then another half day returning the rental car, and getting a ride to the dealership to pick up my car. I have never, ever, had a car that had so much downtime in my life.
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 @peopleschamp7258 â I disagree, not a statistical anomaly. The number of people with similar issues proves my concerns valid. Odd that you mention the Toyota TCS, I know a few times we have run across a Toyota whose computer gave up the ghost soâtoâspeak, encounters either too much data or hits a wall and shuts down. They had to turn traction control OFF, restart, then turn it on again to drive out w winch help. The symptoms are no power seems to be getting to the wheels, like the transmission is OOS or locked up, but it isnât. But also, as you reference no car manufacturer is perfect. However if you look at the JD initial quality ratings, the number of warranty repairs (tracked for example by consumer reports) and the number of lemon law (USA, varies by state, 7 non-related major repairs in one year and you can force the manufacturer to replace the vehicle) returns of any manufacturer. Toyotaâs reputation is earned.
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Greg Kittle â Dude, yes, they can "call them 4x4's" but that doesnât make them one. They all HAVE a center differential, or power wouldnât be directed to all 4 wheels. Period. However... an open center differential is EXACTLY like an open differential in the rear wheels of your car, get one wheel on ice, youâre stuck, all power does to the one wheel with no resistance. You can get out with it in gear, walk around the car and watch the power go nowhere. You must have some play, otherwise itâs hard as hell on your tires, and transmission on pavement. The next best solution is a limited slip diff, it directs power to the wheel with the MOST resistance, so one wheel slips, power diverts. The third best are the newer, cheaper systems that use open diffâs, but computer controls the antilock brakes to faux force the power to the wheel with grip. Sounds great, but they are slower, hard on your brakes, and they can get confused and shut down. Most traction control systems use this method. MOST 4x4's have some combo of these. But having a locking front, and a locking rear WITHOUT A LOCKING CENTER DIFFERENTIAL IS FREAKING DUMB! That makes it a barely effective two wheel drive, not a 4x4. There are only 2 sold in the USA, 3 worldwide that have locking front, center and rear diffâs, the Jeep Rubicon and the Mercedes G-Wagon. Overseas there is an INVECO truck, not sold here. Buy this machine, great machine, but DO NOT TAKE IT OFF ROAD! It is NOT a 4x4! Not joking, do your own homework from this point on you dolt.
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Tyler Anderson â Dude, Read my previous response. No. Just because itâs says 4x4, does not make it so. It just means power can be delivered to all 4 wheels, not evenly, not smartly (AWD) and they do work great on ROADS. Go on ice, snow, mud, youâre stuck. I repeat, how do I know? Because Iâve rescued many, many dozens of bozo simpletons who tried, got stuck, and one of my neighbors calls me and says "Hey, we got another one..." Do either of these have a locking center diff? I donât know, but I doubt it or they would have SAID SO because it is a big, BIG deal.
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